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	<title>Comments on: Doctor Who: The End Of Time Part 1</title>
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	<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/</link>
	<description>John Walker's Electronic House</description>
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		<title>By: Ben Finkel</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6387</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Finkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jan 2010 03:37:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6387</guid>
		<description>For what it&#039;s worth, if I were reminiscing about Earth with a fellow human after the big kerblamers of our lovely rock, I would probably refer to the grass on my lawn as &quot;the green grass stretching over my hill&quot; or whatnot. Yes, the point of writing in &quot;red grass&quot; was to make Gallifrey oh-so-alien, but the line didn&#039;t feel like a stretch to me. Also, the red grass of Gallifrey we have seen in the little clips from these seasons has been rather lovely.

Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what it&#8217;s worth, if I were reminiscing about Earth with a fellow human after the big kerblamers of our lovely rock, I would probably refer to the grass on my lawn as &#8220;the green grass stretching over my hill&#8221; or whatnot. Yes, the point of writing in &#8220;red grass&#8221; was to make Gallifrey oh-so-alien, but the line didn&#8217;t feel like a stretch to me. Also, the red grass of Gallifrey we have seen in the little clips from these seasons has been rather lovely.</p>
<p>Ben</p>
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		<title>By: Masked Dave</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6379</link>
		<dc:creator>Masked Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 16:54:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6379</guid>
		<description>There is no doubt in my mind that the entire plot was set up to do the Master Race gag at the end. They even did that whole bit at the start to dye his hair blonde!

For the most part it did seem like we were watching a bunch of scenes taken from different scripts then shuffled together with James Bond adding some narration to try and stitch them together. It was a like a clip show of the full thing.

But part of me just loves seeing actors enjoy themselves so John Simms saved it for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is no doubt in my mind that the entire plot was set up to do the Master Race gag at the end. They even did that whole bit at the start to dye his hair blonde!</p>
<p>For the most part it did seem like we were watching a bunch of scenes taken from different scripts then shuffled together with James Bond adding some narration to try and stitch them together. It was a like a clip show of the full thing.</p>
<p>But part of me just loves seeing actors enjoy themselves so John Simms saved it for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Quercus</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6378</link>
		<dc:creator>Quercus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jan 2010 15:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6378</guid>
		<description>John, typos aside it isn&#039;t a pointless question. The fact that you have cameos from known celebs every so often only becomes an issue when their apperance (or portrayal) breaks the suspension of disbelief, which I don&#039;t think happened in this case. You might find the whole &quot;Silver cloak&quot; thing annoying, but again that is more how RTD used the OAPs than the people portraying them. 
The only exception to this was the typical RTD gay innuendo/reference from the Barry Howard character (admittedly it wasn&#039;t actually that bad this time, but joins a long list of normally unnecessary such lines from RTD).
Equally, the Master&#039;s reference to grass being different was a bit clumsy (why would he specify the colour unless Gallifrey different coloured grasses?), but hardly worth getting upset about when compared to the other shortfalls in the episode.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, typos aside it isn&#8217;t a pointless question. The fact that you have cameos from known celebs every so often only becomes an issue when their apperance (or portrayal) breaks the suspension of disbelief, which I don&#8217;t think happened in this case. You might find the whole &#8220;Silver cloak&#8221; thing annoying, but again that is more how RTD used the OAPs than the people portraying them.<br />
The only exception to this was the typical RTD gay innuendo/reference from the Barry Howard character (admittedly it wasn&#8217;t actually that bad this time, but joins a long list of normally unnecessary such lines from RTD).<br />
Equally, the Master&#8217;s reference to grass being different was a bit clumsy (why would he specify the colour unless Gallifrey different coloured grasses?), but hardly worth getting upset about when compared to the other shortfalls in the episode.</p>
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		<title>By: Dante</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6365</link>
		<dc:creator>Dante</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 02:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6365</guid>
		<description>It does seem a little like they&#039;ve resorted to Emergency Plan Z for the outro here. That somewhere at the back of the writer&#039;s office there&#039;s a pane of glass labelled &quot;Smash in case of chronic lack of writing talent&quot; containing a small piece of paper that says &quot;Replace entire cast with current best actor on television and hope like hell he can save you&quot;.

I love John Simm, but he can&#039;t work miracles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It does seem a little like they&#8217;ve resorted to Emergency Plan Z for the outro here. That somewhere at the back of the writer&#8217;s office there&#8217;s a pane of glass labelled &#8220;Smash in case of chronic lack of writing talent&#8221; containing a small piece of paper that says &#8220;Replace entire cast with current best actor on television and hope like hell he can save you&#8221;.</p>
<p>I love John Simm, but he can&#8217;t work miracles.</p>
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		<title>By: John Walker</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6364</link>
		<dc:creator>John Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6364</guid>
		<description>&quot;(does anyone really care about camoes from the likes of June Whitfield or the fact that The Master states his grass was red?)&quot;

Yes. I do. And clearly very many others. What a strange and pointless question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;(does anyone really care about camoes from the likes of June Whitfield or the fact that The Master states his grass was red?)&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes. I do. And clearly very many others. What a strange and pointless question.</p>
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		<title>By: Quercus</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6362</link>
		<dc:creator>Quercus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:09:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6362</guid>
		<description>John, I used to be a big fan of what is now called &quot;classic&quot; Who (in my early teens) and in general I love the new series. RTD is capable of some very good writing, but equally, he has a tendency (that has increased over the years) to almost sloppily gloss over the detail behind plots to get to the exciting denuement. 
As you mentioned, the intriguing &quot;Bad Wolf&quot; arc led to a slightly disappointing finale. The Torchwood arc became just a huge trailer for his spin-off series. The Saxon/Master plot for series 3 was good but series 4 just seemed a bit messy. 
As his period as Exec Producer comes to an end he seems less worried about logic or continuity and this has led to some huge plot holes. 

The &quot;closed loop&quot; of the Time War that can be breached mad, lone Dalek, the &quot;One will die&quot; prophesy that wasn&#039;t and the faux regeneration.
The specials have also suffered;
The Next Doctor was a nice idea but didn&#039;t seem to go anywhere (and why exactly were the physically strong and tireless cybermen using workhouse children for manual labour?).
Planet of the Dead wasn&#039;t too bad (apart from the clumsy foreboding at the end given by a bizarrely psychic elderly lady).
Waters of Mars again seemed sloppy; the story didn&#039;t go anywhere for ages and then the Doctor suddenly goes stupid, breaking the laws of time (however logical they are) just because there is nobody around to castigate him for it. Er, what?
I remember hearing RTD say that one of his script editors (Gary Russell) had pointed out that Mars has no atmosphere so you wouldn&#039;t get burning rocket wreckage, but RTD over-ruled him because that was the effect he wanted. You know things are bad when simple logic is thrown out in favour of showmanship.

The End of Time (part 1) was neither as bad as you seemed to think (does anyone really care about camoes from the likes of June Whitfield or the fact that The Master states his grass was red?), but equally it was as full of plot holes and typical RTD nonsense as some of the worst recent stories.
More to the point, you can&#039;t tell where RTD has been stupid and not made the plot in any way make sense (such as the narrator or the strangely non-scientific Master Resurrection Ceremony), or where due to sloppy writing he just hasn&#039;t made it clear what is going on (such as the fact that at the start of the episode we are supposed to know that the Doctor&#039;s moment of fear (&quot;Is this how I die?&quot; at the end of Waters of Mars was actually a real premonition of his own death or that the appearance of the Ood was a sign for him to travel to the Oodsphere to find out exactly how badly he had screwed up and what was going to happen next; hence his attempts delay the inevitable by going on holiday and messing around.
The appearance of this Regeneration machine seems equally sloppy, unless someone (The Master or the Time Lords) have manipulated things in the background to have it appear there at that time. 
Generally it just seems that the plot devices are clumsy rather than clever.

I don&#039;t think David Tennant is past it though - I think he is making the best of his final stories however dodgy the scripts might be. The real fly in the ointment of Doctor Who at the moment is RTD himself and sad though I am to say it, the sooner Stephen Moffat takes over the better.

I also agree that Bernard Cribbins is both a fantastic actor and (as Buzzcocks proved), razor-sharp as a comic wit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I used to be a big fan of what is now called &#8220;classic&#8221; Who (in my early teens) and in general I love the new series. RTD is capable of some very good writing, but equally, he has a tendency (that has increased over the years) to almost sloppily gloss over the detail behind plots to get to the exciting denuement.<br />
As you mentioned, the intriguing &#8220;Bad Wolf&#8221; arc led to a slightly disappointing finale. The Torchwood arc became just a huge trailer for his spin-off series. The Saxon/Master plot for series 3 was good but series 4 just seemed a bit messy.<br />
As his period as Exec Producer comes to an end he seems less worried about logic or continuity and this has led to some huge plot holes. </p>
<p>The &#8220;closed loop&#8221; of the Time War that can be breached mad, lone Dalek, the &#8220;One will die&#8221; prophesy that wasn&#8217;t and the faux regeneration.<br />
The specials have also suffered;<br />
The Next Doctor was a nice idea but didn&#8217;t seem to go anywhere (and why exactly were the physically strong and tireless cybermen using workhouse children for manual labour?).<br />
Planet of the Dead wasn&#8217;t too bad (apart from the clumsy foreboding at the end given by a bizarrely psychic elderly lady).<br />
Waters of Mars again seemed sloppy; the story didn&#8217;t go anywhere for ages and then the Doctor suddenly goes stupid, breaking the laws of time (however logical they are) just because there is nobody around to castigate him for it. Er, what?<br />
I remember hearing RTD say that one of his script editors (Gary Russell) had pointed out that Mars has no atmosphere so you wouldn&#8217;t get burning rocket wreckage, but RTD over-ruled him because that was the effect he wanted. You know things are bad when simple logic is thrown out in favour of showmanship.</p>
<p>The End of Time (part 1) was neither as bad as you seemed to think (does anyone really care about camoes from the likes of June Whitfield or the fact that The Master states his grass was red?), but equally it was as full of plot holes and typical RTD nonsense as some of the worst recent stories.<br />
More to the point, you can&#8217;t tell where RTD has been stupid and not made the plot in any way make sense (such as the narrator or the strangely non-scientific Master Resurrection Ceremony), or where due to sloppy writing he just hasn&#8217;t made it clear what is going on (such as the fact that at the start of the episode we are supposed to know that the Doctor&#8217;s moment of fear (&#8220;Is this how I die?&#8221; at the end of Waters of Mars was actually a real premonition of his own death or that the appearance of the Ood was a sign for him to travel to the Oodsphere to find out exactly how badly he had screwed up and what was going to happen next; hence his attempts delay the inevitable by going on holiday and messing around.<br />
The appearance of this Regeneration machine seems equally sloppy, unless someone (The Master or the Time Lords) have manipulated things in the background to have it appear there at that time.<br />
Generally it just seems that the plot devices are clumsy rather than clever.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think David Tennant is past it though &#8211; I think he is making the best of his final stories however dodgy the scripts might be. The real fly in the ointment of Doctor Who at the moment is RTD himself and sad though I am to say it, the sooner Stephen Moffat takes over the better.</p>
<p>I also agree that Bernard Cribbins is both a fantastic actor and (as Buzzcocks proved), razor-sharp as a comic wit.</p>
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		<title>By: EthZee</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6358</link>
		<dc:creator>EthZee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Dec 2009 18:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6358</guid>
		<description>@John: I never said I was using logic. I was merely applying Finagle&#039;s Law to real-life events, combined with cynicism. I&#039;m pretty hopeful that Moffat&#039;s who will be pretty awesome anyway; I&#039;m just using the &quot;fact&quot; that hype can lead to disappointment sometimes.

Logic can be so dull at times, I prefer to operate on a mixture of illogic and stupidity.

Also, do we know what effect that Moffat&#039;s tenure with Doctor Who will have? Will it just be that he&#039;ll be writing most of the episodes, or will he be directing all of them (and possibly modifying episodes written by other writers)? I&#039;m assuming that if Moffat&#039;s written a few episodes for the last few series, then that means that RTD will be writing some guest episodes?

@Dr. Nerfball:

I&#039;d say less Emperor, more Cole McGrath from Infamous, he with the electric hands.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@John: I never said I was using logic. I was merely applying Finagle&#8217;s Law to real-life events, combined with cynicism. I&#8217;m pretty hopeful that Moffat&#8217;s who will be pretty awesome anyway; I&#8217;m just using the &#8220;fact&#8221; that hype can lead to disappointment sometimes.</p>
<p>Logic can be so dull at times, I prefer to operate on a mixture of illogic and stupidity.</p>
<p>Also, do we know what effect that Moffat&#8217;s tenure with Doctor Who will have? Will it just be that he&#8217;ll be writing most of the episodes, or will he be directing all of them (and possibly modifying episodes written by other writers)? I&#8217;m assuming that if Moffat&#8217;s written a few episodes for the last few series, then that means that RTD will be writing some guest episodes?</p>
<p>@Dr. Nerfball:</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say less Emperor, more Cole McGrath from Infamous, he with the electric hands.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Nerfball</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6354</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Nerfball</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 21:39:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6354</guid>
		<description>@ EthZee: It&#039;s more a composite of The Emperor and Alex Mercer. There might also be a small amount of good acting thrown in there, although I cant really comment seeing as I only came back around about the time he was using force lightening to jump across the room and there were two cactus kid clones talking about healing stuff...

Man, that last sentance really did make no sense, poor grammar probably didnt help matters though.

But anyway! I came here to say I enjoyed that lil&#039; sparring match up there with Walker and Campbell, good banter that. Going now!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ EthZee: It&#8217;s more a composite of The Emperor and Alex Mercer. There might also be a small amount of good acting thrown in there, although I cant really comment seeing as I only came back around about the time he was using force lightening to jump across the room and there were two cactus kid clones talking about healing stuff&#8230;</p>
<p>Man, that last sentance really did make no sense, poor grammar probably didnt help matters though.</p>
<p>But anyway! I came here to say I enjoyed that lil&#8217; sparring match up there with Walker and Campbell, good banter that. Going now!</p>
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		<title>By: John Walker</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6353</link>
		<dc:creator>John Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:29:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6353</guid>
		<description>I really cannot follow your logic. Why is there an inevitability that Moffat will be as bad as RTD? Every episode he&#039;s written for the show has been flipping superb. I&#039;m sure that running the show will mean his time and talent will be diluted somewhat, and Moffat is more than capable of writing some absolute rubbish, but I really cannot see a valid reason for assuming he&#039;d be as bad as Davies dreadful hack work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I really cannot follow your logic. Why is there an inevitability that Moffat will be as bad as RTD? Every episode he&#8217;s written for the show has been flipping superb. I&#8217;m sure that running the show will mean his time and talent will be diluted somewhat, and Moffat is more than capable of writing some absolute rubbish, but I really cannot see a valid reason for assuming he&#8217;d be as bad as Davies dreadful hack work.</p>
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		<title>By: EthZee</title>
		<link>http://botherer.org/2009/12/27/doctor-who-the-end-of-time-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-6352</link>
		<dc:creator>EthZee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:12:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://botherer.org/?p=1581#comment-6352</guid>
		<description>Also, why was The Master a composite of Alex Mercer and Gollum?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, why was The Master a composite of Alex Mercer and Gollum?</p>
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